The state of svapna-jagrat is connected with the departure of the subtle body. It can also manifest in the waking state if the perception of the subtle body dominates over the perception of jagrat.
Question: Do these people who are in the state of svapna-jagrat behave in some different way?
A person is completely immersed in his dream world. He is not aware of himself in the ordinary sense — he is awake there, in the subtle world. It is like a person absorbed in a computer game: he is so deeply in it that he hears nothing around him. It is the same here — he may be awake, but he still does not perceive this world, because his attention is there.
It happens that a person in a state of somnambulism may get into a car, drive two hundred kilometers, rob a house, return, and fall asleep. Such cases are known in forensic science — the person was acquitted because he truly was a sleepwalker and did not understand what he was doing.
Possession by spirits can also lead to similar states, with the involvement of spirits.
Obscuration and Enlightenment of States of Consciousness
Question: There is a certain contradiction here: on the one hand, svapna-jagrat is described as an obscured state, while on the other hand, in the system of the sixteen states of consciousness it appears as enlightened. How should this be understood?
Enlightenment depends on whether the natural state, always directed toward turiya, is present at the given moment. If this orientation is present, then in all sixteen states it will be enlightened — regardless of a person’s absorption in one world or another. If the orientation toward turiya is absent, that is, if the natural state of contemplation is absent, then it will be obscuring, because the force of the pressure of that world completely eclipses it.
Thus, if this is a practitioner, it is a matter of progress and awareness in dreams. If this is an ordinary person, it is already an illness.
Jagrat-Sushupti and Orientation Toward Turiya
Question: The “Yoga Vasistha” and Sri Ramana Maharshi always emphasized precisely the state of jagrat-sushupti. Sri Ramana Maharshi said: hold on to the “I,” the I-thought, the I-am. Does this mean that what is being spoken of is an orientation exclusively toward turiya — so that the witness itself disappears?
Yes. Jagrat-sushupti is a desired state for us in the sense that it serves as a model of the natural state. It is not yet the natural state itself, but a very close likeness of it. For example, when we meditate on space, on the sky — this is a likeness of the Clear Light. It is not the Clear Light itself, but its likeness, which helps it unfold. In the same way, jagrat-sushupti is a likeness of turiya, but not yet turiya itself. If we practice vichara — the investigation of this state — then we will reach turiya.
If we do not practice vichara and stop in this dimension, considering it self-sufficient and pleasant, then it becomes a form of ignorance — just like any other. If we strive in the state of jagrat-sushupti, svapna-jagrat, jagrat-svapna, or any other, considering it self-sufficient, but without orientation toward God and without vichara, without aspiration toward turiya, then it becomes a form of ignorance.
Lands of Ignorance: The First and the Second
Question: Could you explain the difference between the first and second land of ignorance? Is the second our ordinary waking state? That is, if we are now sitting without orientation toward God, without self-inquiry, without vichara — is this the second land of ignorance?
Yes, you have all already reached it.
Question: And is the first some kind of embryonic wakefulness?
The first is a state in which wakefulness as such is not yet present. For example, a child who has not yet fully entered wakefulness; an animal with twilight consciousness; or the very first moment before awakening, when wakefulness itself is not yet present. There is no self-identification, not even the strength to be awake — it is a kind of drunken state.
A drunk person or a drug addict is even lower: an ordinary person has jagrat, but he does not even have jagrat — he is inadequate even in wakefulness. Animals also possess some kind of jagrat, but undeveloped. A stone, a plant — they are aware of themselves extremely weakly; there can be no question there of the sixteen states of consciousness, scarcely even one is present there. The spirit is suppressed.
